John

Really? You’ve been to DPRK? Surely you’d be able to refute these claims then.

Because the Capitalists and billionaires told you to?

I’m more just shouting at clouds than at you specifically. Cheers! 🥃

Could you explain what you actually want

Simply put: I don’t want billionaires controlling every single aspect of society, as they do now.

If you’d like to read more, I agree with all of this.. I also agree with all of this.

what you could see realistically happening if the fascists won?

Arguably, and I would, the fascists are already in control. Just think of the tech enshittification at the hands of technofascists. Think of the endless wars; how much say in those wars do you truly believe you have? Think of the military budget outspending every single other country combined. We are the most powerful and richest country in the history of this planet … and 50% of americans can’t afford a 1 bedroom apartment. Americans can’t afford groceries. Real wages have been stuck in the 1970s. We are bankrupting ourselves with medical and student debt. Nobody can afford a house. Kids still in cages, guantanamo bay still operating, ICE record funding every year,

How much say do you have at your job? Unions are being squashed and suppressed. Have you attended a pro-gaza rally lately? How did the police treat you?

…I want a better world in which the 99% actually have a say, actually have a better life, and we don’t have 1% of people hoarding all the power and wealth of the world. This IS possible.

JFK passed the equal pay act. LBJ passed the civil rights act.

You’re skipping why those passed when they did. Postwar US was in a red scare, Communism spreading across Europe, fear of uprisings at home, and that fear forced progressive concessions. The one era of capitalism people romanticize is that one, and it was shaped by fear of Communism plus massive grassroots working-class movements. JFK and LBJ didn’t pass those laws out of kindness. Cities were burning, people were organizing at rates this country had never seen, demanding better material conditions.

Clinton passed the violence against women act

This law was very limited and a classic neolib policy. It did not, in fact, dismantle any systems of oppression. It was another concession to the feminist “radicals” of the era.

In Texas, my grandmother wasn’t able to have her own bank account without my grandfather signing a permission note until John Connally, a Democrat, passed the Marital Property Act of 1967. My mother never had that problem because a Democrat changed the conditions for women in this country.

Democrats didn’t do this though. That’s my whole point. Sure they may have signed the law, but the pressure and the framing came from socialists and activists, through fear of revolution, strikes, boycotts. Yours is a standard liberal talking point, and it whitewashes history and erases the struggle that was actually fought for.

Do I want a true left to rise in the United States? Yes. Do I think the Democrats have any hope of fixing capitalism? No. BUT, this victory is sweet, and I’ll be raising a glass to the Democrats today anyway.

On this we agree. Victory was sweet yesterday. I’m mostly celebrating. But we need to continue to organize and fight for what we want. Capitalists and billionaire oligarchs will not just give us what we want out of the kindness of their hearts. That’s simply not how any of this works. Don’t become a “If Harris won we’d be at brunch” kind of person.

“tankie” is pejorative term used by fascists and libs for Socialists and Communists. the people who use the term tankie unironically often denounce many or all existing Socialist states (Cuba, China, DPRK, etc) as “authoritarian”.

I repeat: You have a very warped view of what Socialists believe in.

“tankie” is pejorative term used by fascists and libs for Socialists and Communists. the people who use the term tankie unironically often denounce many or all existing Socialist states (Cuba, China, DPRK, etc) as “authoritarian”.

We have plenty of wins, built on the hard work of working class Americans door knocking, phone banking, canvassing, signature gathering, etc.

You have a very warped view of what Socialists believe in.

This is very incorrect.

As “one of those people” you are talking about, we’ve been here before. Yes, it feels awesome to get such a decisive victory over the republicans. I’ve seen this before. Over and over again. The pendulum has swung back to the left. But, just because we voted in a bunch of Dems, hell even a bunch of Socialists, that doesn’t mean they will, or even can, fix the most broken parts of this system. Democrats have enabled and even facilitated some of the worst aspects of what we’re seeing right now from Trump and Republicans. I mean, you yourself even admit it: “I don’t have a lot of faith in democrats to actually get the shit done that they need to”.

The difference is, we know what needs to be done. A really famous guy wrote about it over a 100 years ago. Having Blue majority didn’t improve anybody’s material conditions in the past. Why would it now? Yes, they’re “less bad”, but Dems are still pretty bad. What makes this time different?

I love the outcome of the election. It was a bloodbath. But I’m not deluding myself that wholesale change will ever come from national electeds. Defeatist? Maybe. I’m just tempering my expectations, even from DSA endorsed winners.

this post sums it up best imo. Prove me wrong. Prove all of us MLs and “tAnKiEs” wrong. Prove to us that voting can and does work, that we can materially improve people’s situations without protest.

Now do 2016 and 2020

cheers! 🥃

This is a whitewashed view of history.

Don’t you find it odd that every election is “the most important election in the history of the universe! Democracy itself is on the ballot!”. Yet no matter which “side” wins, material conditions just get worse and worse and worse and worse? Lesser evilism doesn’t work. It simply doesn’t. Doesn’t it bother you that the same billionaires funding Trump and Reps are the same ones funding the Dems? Doesn’t it bother you that no matter how much “control” the “good guys” have in office, there’s always a handful that vote against party lines to roadblock any progressive measures? Isn’t it odd that everything is a half measure … “progressive” policies sill have half of America unable to afford a 1 bedroom apartment, are drowning in medical and student debt, etc? None of these people work for you. They work for their corporate/capitalist interests.

When dems were in control, we were still bombing countries, sanctioning and inflicting misery around the world, approving record funding for ICE and Homeland security, still had kids in cages, still torturing people in guantanamo, people couldn’t afford rent, or the doctor, or basic necessities, real wages have been stagnant since the 70s., etc. By all means vote for the lesser evil, but conditions will not materially improve within a system that will not allow material conditions to improve meaningfully. Take small wins where we can, but acknowledge that it’s simply a bandaid.

Encouragement to avoid voting, in this context, is clearly favorable to Trump’s side

Why is not voting always assumed to help Republicans? Surely there’s Republicans who stay home as well? But to clarify, I’m encouraging people to vote for the best candidate that meets their expectations, not to just blindly vote blue no matter who. “It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don’t want and get it.” - Eugene V. Debs

Some material conditions improved, yes. Overall, no. The mass movement against the Shah was successful but the working class failed to control power for various reasons, to put it succinctly.

Do you believe that the Capitalists, bourgeoisie, and fascists will just give you rights and an improved life out of the goodness of their heart? This has never happened. Working class power threatens the system, and if threatened, Capitalism will attempt to squash that working class power.

People think there’s some golden age of Capitalism which is progressive and bends to the will of the people. This is a fantasy, and has never existed ever in history.

it’s a bit surprising how many CEO’s express disdain for their users and employees.

Not surprising one bit if you understand how Capitalism works. We are just tools of the bourgeoisie.

Revolution is the only thing that has led to improved material conditions, even in the United States. Did you fall asleep during history class, or has it been so whitewashed and sanitized at this point that people don’t even know their own history?

Billionaires are not a monolith, and differing interests exist among them. By the way, the same billionaires fund both Dems and Republicans lol…

Voting has never, in US history, improved people’s material conditions. Material conditions improved only through violent struggle and community organization. My, how the past has been whitewashed…