Every week, millions of Christians gather to worship and remember the tenets of the faith: belief in God, in Jesus Christ as his son and their savior, and in the Holy Spirit. Many utter the words of the Lord’s Prayer each week, and in doing so, ask that God forgive our sins, as we forgive those who trespass against us.
These are the ABCs of the Christian faith — and they should theoretically be an easy answer to offer if, like President Donald Trump, you’re asked what might happen when you die, and what you might do when Judgment Day comes.
And yet, when asked last week by Ross Douthat on 60 Minutes where Trump thinks he’ll go when he dies — and if he could forgive his political enemies if his salvation depended on it — Trump was brutally honest.
“Well, I’m a religious person, so in theory I go to heaven,” the president said. “I hope so. I don’t want to go to hell.”
Could he forgive opponents like former FBI Director James Comey and former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi?
“Well, then I wouldn’t be real, would I? I mean, if I said to you, sure, the easy answer to that is ‘Oh, yes, I could forgive,’” Trump told Douthat. “The answer is no. I want to be honest, no.”
Even if God asked it?
“Before the judgment, no,” he said. “I do hate some of my enemies…I probably cannot do that, no, because I do hate some of my enemies and I always will.”
Well it certainly wasn’t because of the child raping.
Christians were 100% A-OK with that.
This article is hilarious. What planet is the author living on?
First off, religious people generally don’t give a shit about these kinds of “gotchas” or contradictions, because their beliefs and texts are full of contradictions to start with. Second, nobody expects someone like Trump, who is not a religious leader, to have exactly correct answers to theological questions. Third, nothing he said there is really all that bad.
If people are pushing back (the article is very light on actual examples), it’s because the midterms, and the failed policies leading to them, have weakened his status as a “sacred cow.”
The article is complete nonsense.
So the cruelty and violent rhetoric and the hypocrisy were all fine, but admitting that he’s going to end up in Hell is crossing the line? You fucking Jesus cultists disgust me.
They’re starting to see him as a risk to their grift.
They should be. By any genuine scholar’s definition he is an antichrist figure, and could arguably be THE antichrist. This Google doc slide presentation lays it out far better than I ever could. It’s a couple years old by now (at least) but once you get past the texty intro it goes fast and lays out the arguments well. Certainly nothing has changed that would refute the author’s conclusions.
Oh, and this “I can’t forgive” thing is at the top of the list. Someone might want to read him the Lord’s Prayer and have a chat about “Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors,” also translated as “Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who have trespassed against us.” Not that they would, or that he would hear it.
Note: I am an atheist. I do not defend this. I am only pointing out that from its earliest days, and from the core of its canon, Christianity was never supposed to be a make-it-up-as-you-go-along faith, even if that’s what he and others have turned it into.
The slide presentation – same author – is much longer and more thorough.
Now?! They are literally worshipping an orange cow.
Some evangelicals did admittedly think he was the antichrist the whole time. I know my mom’s parents, though otherwise terrible people, always believed that of him, and they’re devout conservative Baptists. I still doubt that they would’ve voted for Democrats, but given that we’ve never been particularly close, I don’t actually know how they voted.
They probably voted for him despite believing he is the Antichrist. Or because of it. Some of these people want an apocalypse in the Middle East because that will align with scripture, bringing about the end of days, and they all get to go to happy sky place.
The funny thing is that if they’re correct about the end of days I think they’ll be disappointed with where they end up.
Entirely possible, wouldn’t surprise me one bit.
Yah, the only group that increased its support of the traitorous GOP is freaked out by the person making their bigotry take its final form. I’m sure.
Evangelicals are not Christians.
They’re almost all charlatans, with a few sheep mixed in to pay for the mega church.
How do you know they’re not Christian: they don’t file any of Christ’s teachings and they lie about speaking in tongues. If you don’t follow Christ’s own teachings, by definition you’re not Christian.
This is bullshit Christian copium. Your religion is toxic and you refuse to accept it.
Until your alleged christians police their own ranks, yes evangelicals are christians. So are christo fascists and Christian nationalists and all those weirdos who worship trump. Don’t like it? Reject those you claim don’t represent your faith.
Evangelicals are Christians.
Nobody follows Christ’s teachings. He said to give away everything to the poor, the jacket off your back, and to live like a bird in the field. So, by your stated metric, only a few hermits living in the wilderness are Christian.
Yet, there are billions of Christians that don’t live like birds in the field. Deal with reality as it is, not as you wish it to be.
People don’t follow them perfectly, but evangelicals straight up don’t follow them.
Modern evangelical Christians in the US are made up of pro-slavery southern fundamentalists, wrapped up in the idea the earth will soon end and you need to recruit more evangelicals. It’s a hate based pyramid scheme.
This is just the no true scotsman fallacy. Evangelicals are one of the largest sects of Christianity. You can disown them if you like, but outsiders to the Christian faith aren’t going to care who is the real Christian when all sects claim to be so to the exclusion of all others.
I agree. Every time I say it, people push back and scream “no true Scotsman!”, but it’s true. There are fake Christians (who mostly probably know they are that) and there are people who actually try to follow those teachings. Doesn’t mean they have to be perfect. But yes there are real and fake Christians just like most any other thing people claim to be.
Edit: And if you’re wondering who I would consider real Christians, those would largely be the ones doing charity work that truly helps people without preaching at them. They exist.
So then are there any Christians?
Yes.
They’re the ones who help their neighbours, treat immigrants with respect, don’t hoard wealth beyond what they’ll conceivably ever need.
And you’re the one who determines which is which?
Decidedly anti-Christian and goes directly against the Bible.
… and keep their faith to themselves.
Have you read the Bible? I would really say proselytizing is a disqualifier for being christian
15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”
Mark 16:15-18
Nope.
To some extent. You’re probably referencing the Sermon on the Mount, though (Matthew 5 and 6, including the bits about praying in private and not making a display of your faith), and that wasn’t exactly a private affair.
Anyone who claims to be a christian is a christian, if you don’t like their behavior then look inward.
Religion is the problem not the particular branding.
Ok. Anyone who claims to be a socialist is a socialist. Just as true, right?
Socialism isn’t a religion that claims to save your eternal soul. The comparison is dumb.
You’ve given no reason that the comparison is dumb. The comparison shows that it’s its stupid to claim that when it’s convenient for you, I have to think the concept of faking isn’t real, but any other time it is.
There’s a little more incentive to claim to be an adherent to a religion when the people of that religion believe in eternal damnation for non-believers.
It’s just not comparable at all. Socialism isn’t a religion.
Ok so because you think Christians can trick God, faking isn’t real.
Seriously what is the point in your comments? I absolutely know that if you thought about it for .5 seconds you’d see the point, instead you try to derail by saying what socialism is or isn’t and that has fuck-all to do with the point. Substitute any other belief you can fake and the point remains.
I find it really annoying, this trend of “your comparison doesn’t work, there’s at least one difference between the two things.” Yeah no shit, why would I compare identical things? The point is to illustrate the relevance difference between the two. In this case, “despite whether the belief is one you like or not, it can be faked”. Obviously.
Christian’s will never be freaked out by this man because America Christian’s are fucking hateful maniacs that don’t believe in Christ.
For the love of God there are a TON of different kinds of Christians. I mean, for crying out loud, a Presbyterian minister was part of a group of protestors that was shot by a rubber bullet while demonstrating against ICE, Bishop Marianne Budde was in the news the day of the inauguration for calling out Trump in her brief sermon at a prayer service that he himself was attending, every No Kings/No Tyrants protest includes plenty of Christian groups (including me and my colleagues who stood with the ACLU). So please stop this bullshit of acting like we all support Trump and right-wing nationalstic policies. Stop acting like my religion is some kind of monolith. If you can differentiate between “Muslim” and “radicalized terrorist” then you sure as shit can learn a few distinctions of us Christians. Be better Vox.
Oh interesting… So when the argument is about the one or two examples on the left, then it’s all about how there are a ton of different types of Christians, and see there are good ones!
But when the discussion is and evangelicals, we suddenly get all of the, “well they’re not real Christians” arguments.
How convenient that you get to claim the handful of good ones while disavowing all the awful ones. What a clever little situation there.
I know you’re out there, and you know you’re out there. If it’s within you to do so, please continue doing all the good you do, because it is very real. But there is backlash: the church has not policed its own.
At some point Christianity is going to have to address its general I Corinthians (and specifically Romans 2:17-24) problem. Until it does, I am genuinely sorry that you, and other genuine believers like you, are being tarred with the same filthy brush.
They believe in burning bushes and talking snakes… So I doubt it.
They are just trying to save face from the impending fallout.
Will we see a GOP fracture, or a new post-religious right?
No there will never be a significant post-religious right. There overall views aren’t popular, without being able to turn to homophobia, transphobia, abortion, there numbers would be under 15%. Only borderline issue I can think of that isn’t highly dependent on religion is guns.
There’s also the people who are unreligious or otherwise neutral on social issues, but entirely willing to toss minority rights and environmental protections under the bus when promised with tax cuts.
Well yes I wasn’t eliminating them, I was noting the 15% of them. you’ve got selfish people who are really rich that benefit from the tax cuts… and you’ve got morons who will get a lot worse off.
If God was real, they’d would slit their own throat rather than have followers like them
No they aren’t.
Now? Not anytime in the last 10 years? Just now?
It wasn’t hawking bibles that did it huh?
